Illumination CEO Says When Making the Super Mario Galaxy Movie: ‘Miyamoto-san Is Also the Most Important Audience Member’

Shigeru Miyamoto is the most important audience member. At least that’s the vision when Illumination joined forces with Nintendo to make big budget blockbuster Mario movies based on Miyamoto’s iconic original character, who just so happens to be celebrating his fortieth anniversary this year. At the Nintendo Museum in Kyoto, Japan, I sat down with legendary game designer Shigeru Miyamoto and Illumination founder Chris Meledandri to find out how they collaborate together, why they went to the galaxy for the sequel, and the grand plan to get Pikmin into everything.

Here’s our full interview below, lightly edited for length and clarity:

IGN: We are here at the Nintendo Museum in Kyoto. It’s one of the coolest places I’ve ever been. The Nintendo Museum is an incredible celebration of Nintendo history and the Mario movies are starting to build up in the same way. We’re seeing a lot of characters that I didn’t think I’d see in these movies. Guys like R.O.B. the Robot and Mouser and Wart. How do you decide which of these old-school characters to pull in and put in the movies?

Chris Meledandri: Well, the way that we work together is a collaboration unlike any that I’ve ever had in my career. And the process of making these movies is a process of discovery. So, we don’t sit down before we start thinking about the stories and plot out what character is gonna come in where. It really comes from within the creative process and ideas emerge, the ideas feel fun, and then we collectively talk about it. And we always rely on Miyamoto-San’s instinct about whether or not the integration feels right, right?

Shigeru Miyamoto: You know, the whole process, because the whole team really is a Nintendo family and love Nintendo, we can feel that, for example, ideas would come up and we would think “Oh, yeah, we haven’t seen that in so long!” So it’s really fun to be able to kind of get those ideas and inspirations from them as well. And you know, it’s apt that you mentioned the museum, because it really does feel like visiting a museum of nostalgia that I see when I’m going through this process, and really looking back, it puts me in awe of how much talent there is in the Mario cast.

When the title was first revealed, there were some Nintendo fans that said “You jumped over Super Mario World, you jumped over Mario 64, and over Sunshine, and you went right to Galaxy!” What was the thinking behind going straight to the Galaxy for the second movie?

Miyamoto: You know, on the first movie, when we were working on it, we hadn’t really decided whether the movie was gonna take place mostly in Brooklyn, or is it gonna take place mostly in the Mushroom Kingdom. That wasn’t set yet. But when we decided that we were going to put Donkey Kong Country near the Mushroom Kingdom it got me to think, okay, most of the movie’s probably gonna take place in the Mushroom Kingdom. And that helped me get to the place where, okay, if we expand this out to Galaxy, that makes sense to me, because it’s not a galaxy that exists above Brooklyn. It’s the galaxy that’s above the Mushroom Kingdom. And then, again, that sat well with me and it made sense to me.

Meledandri: It’s also nice that we give ourselves a bit of freedom from having to really be locked into any one game as the reference. We’ve given ourselves the freedom to, you know, to pull an element in from Odyssey. And what we’ve also discovered is that we find ourselves wanting to avoid being too predictable. Because when things are too predictable, I find that it’s not exciting us and it’s not exciting our creative teams. So, with a bit more latitude to look for the ideas that are either as visually compelling as Galaxy is or emotionally compelling because Galaxy invites a level of emotion that’s really appealing, that we move towards those ideas and those feelings that are compelling us and the team.

It made me very happy to see Pikmin in this movie. I know how special they are to you. I asked you last year when I talked to you in Orlando if we’d ever see the Pikmin on the big screen, so thank you for making that happen. Was this something you personally requested?

Miyamoto: Now I wouldn’t say a request. More like a mission. I’m on a mission to try to include Pikmin in any kind of Nintendo product we put up. And obviously Pikmin can be appearing anywhere, but the idea, the setting of Galaxy really lends itself to having Pikmin be there as part of the world. And so I was waiting in anticipation for what kind of ideas came from illumination.

One of the things I love about Super Mario is how many different design iterations he’s had over the years. He started out as pixel art, became 3D, and every single time we see him, there’s something new about him. Even Mario Wonder a few years ago. How did you land on the design for Mario in the Mario movies? Because he’s so unique and specific and different from the games.

Miyamoto: Just like the first design I made of Mario is very different from the current Mario, Mario continues to evolve as a character, and when working with Chris-San, you know, obviously, there’s the phase of going from illustration to 3D to become models and figures. And once it becomes a movie, I’ve been saying that it becomes a person. And now that the “person” has gone through, you know, struggles and really evolved or grew as that person, having all different kinds of emotions and really grown as a character. And I think seeing Mario or seeing any character go through a rich expansion of character, I think that’s something that I’m sure the character is happy about and I feel happy about it.

Meledandri: It’s interesting because our process is that our designers start generally with the most recent iteration of each character from Nintendo. And that design is studied by our team and the starting point is truly translating that design into our version of 3D space. Inevitably, when you start adding all of the specificity of detail of, let’s say, all of the hairs on Mario’s mustache, that, with that specificity of detail comes opportunities for small evolution of design. And it comes back to that process of discovery. But that initial phase is really drilling down on a direct translation. The starting point is really that Nintendo design.

Miyamoto: You know, I just want to mention, during the creation of the first movie, we were all kind of looking at a screen this size [gestures making a small screen with his hands] but Chris said, “No, no, no! The screen’s gonna be very big! The expression needs to be rich.” And so that was what Chris-San had taught us. And so with the second movie I really feel like now everything’s kind of moving as expected. It’s a well oiled machine.

Mr. Miyamoto, you created Mario by hand with a drawing. Do you still pass sketches and drawings to the team at Illumination?

Miyamoto: When some of the CG drawings come up from Illumination for ideas I will still kind of take my pen and kind of, you know, do markings here and there. There’s someone who kind of helps create my drawing into a very easily understandable illustration. And so we still go through the process of iterating and communicating in that way.

That’s amazing. There’s sort of a philosophy for the older games that these characters are basically kind of like friends in a stage play. They’re all sort of interacting and playing golf together and tennis and then they’re battling each other, but at the end of the day, they’re all sort of on the same level. Is that philosophy being kind of carried on into the movies?

Miyamoto: I would certainly like to believe that, you know, we maybe have a Mario acting group. A troupe. A Mario Troupe, where we consider casting differently every time, or take for example Bowser as a character working with Illumination to see what kind of breadth or width of emotion and changes and evolution Bowser can have. Things like that are discussions that we continue to have.

Meledandri: And I think that maybe the closest we’ve come to actually having a stage play within this movie is a puppet show (referencing a scene in the Super Mario Galaxy Movie where Bowser puts on a puppet show for Bowser Jr.)

But you know, what your question brings to mind for me is this quality that exists in these characters of how much they all really like each other. And I really feel like that’s a quality that has come from the games and is preserved in the films and I think is a really unique aspect of the films.

We saw some really cool cameos in this movie and some surprises I was not expecting at all which I won’t spoil just yet. Do you see these movies as a celebration of not just Mario but all things Nintendo as they continue to grow and expand?

Miyamoto: You know, this time rather than thinking about where we’re going to hide what, I was more taken aback and surprised at how many talented characters and actors there are in this world of Nintendo and in the world of Mario. And then within that, having, say, one Nintendo character appear, even just that appearance, we saw that there’s a lot of joy to be had. And that’s something that I love seeing and something that gives these characters another potentially different opportunity and kind of sharing the limelight is something that’s really enjoyable to see. So, from that perspective, I really think having R.O.B. in there was really impressive and exciting.

Meledandri: Just to share with you a perspective from the Illumination side of this, when you’re working with Miyamoto-San who is the embodiment of the spirit of Nintendo, what starts to happen among the team making the movie is that as our partner and collaborator, Miyamoto-san is also the most important audience member. So what happens is that the team actually is driven to delight Miyamoto-san. So this is not, I don’t ask them to do this. This is, of course, organic. So when ideas come up, everybody’s always looking to say “what does Miyamoto-san think?” And so that process – given that he is the spirit of Nintendo – does lead to, indirectly, to a celebration of Nintendo.

I love that. So these movies are basically for you, Miyamoto.

Miyamoto: You know, so sometimes I get an email from Chris-San saying “I know we might be pushing the envelope, but this is something the team came up with.” I can really tell that they really want to see this happen.

A lot of younger audiences are finding these characters and these worlds for the first time through these movies and then becoming Mario fans and Nintendo fans forever. How important are these films to introduce the next generation into becoming old Nintendo fans like me one day?

Miyamoto: So right from the get-go, when I created Mario, and, you know, looking at Mickey Mouse, Mickey Mouse is a character that evolves and grows alongside animation. And we felt that Mario is a character that grows and evolves alongside digital technology. And so as we have more digital technology that allows many ways to distribute that and share that with more people, those things come together to form this unison. And as we’re talking about these films, we started to feel like films are another medium that Mario can star in and be featured in. And so really seeing that come together provides us with more opportunities for people to be able to engage with and be introduced to Nintendo, the world of Nintendo, and that this kind of coming together is something that I appreciate and love seeing.

The Super Mario Galaxy Movie is out now and I wouldn’t be surprised if it marks another massive success for Illumination and Nintendo’s partnership, but perhaps more importantly, a way to create new lifelong Nintendo fans to watch the movies, play the games, and look back at the company’s incredible history with a big smile on their face.

Brian Altano is an Executive Producer and host and also a lifelong Nintendo fan who was quietly losing his mind geeking out at all of the cool stuff at the Nintendo Museum. Did you know Nintendo made a stroller in 1965? Like, for babies? They have one there at the museum! How crazy is that!